300 AAC Blackout. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. Compare. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. I would go with the sig. To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. Sig Sauer. Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. New! Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. So was the grip and handguard. Looks pretty sweet . The system is also completely modular like the MPX. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. I'm a sucker for. The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. Save my name and email to use for future comments. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? View Product. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. This is the MCX Rattler. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. To install (or remove for cleaning), you have to pop out both pins on the lower receiver and then slide the upper receiver back and forth. One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. No problems except for the gas blowback. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Full Member. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. Featuring a 5.5" PDW barrel, the MCX platform has never been more compact or accessible. HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. The only mistake Springfield made on an otherwise terrific design, was to have the hand guard ride over the threads. Thanks for opening my eyes. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. But you may have noticed complete uppers selling for as little as $400 during the last rounds of holiday sales and complete carbines selling for less than $700. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. They are dead to me. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. The SIG MCX in a discrete platform featuring a thin, durable folding stock and a 5.5" barrel with PDW upper. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. You are using an out of date browser. I bought a Tread on a whim. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. I got the email also Bio. I mainly shoot at an indoor range. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. No. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. Thats as short as ARs get. The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. I really appreciate the input. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. Saw that email pop up today. Compare. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Its truly impressive. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. He called it a stutter. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. JavaScript is disabled. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. I used two suppressors with the Rattler. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Why pay more? S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. 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